dan who was their foreign policy advisor, beth meyers. >> bill: you have all of the major players there. what did you learn from the romney campaign? >> just so many nuggets came out of it. when we talked about what happened with clint eastwood, stuart says personally, die think it was a big deal. he goes up to clint eastwood beforehand saying you're going to be talking about the same little speech you gave at two fund-raisers, aren't you? and eastwood -- he looked at him and just said yep and then he goes out and does the empty chair thing. but while that dominated the news of the night and it was part of the their at this of that convention, they didn't think it was determinative. >> bill: they're still in denial. >> the other thing that was interesting is on the selection of paul ryan. so the democrats this we kind of knew. actually, i know from another forum that david axelrod was at the university of chicago institute of politics. he talked about how he thought all along it would be either rob portman or -- i'm blanking now. who is the other -- pawlenty or portman. >> poor tim pawl